Sunday, September 30, 2007

25. The SAW / SEEN Spin

Hey, all of you Grammar Stars! It's good to have you back again and ready for a new lesson. I hope you've all been as busy as bees on a watermelon rind, enjoying yourself and being happy.

Today's lesson is another special request and I am eager to address it since I think this one is especially peculiar to our Southeastern North Carolina area -- and maybe throughout most of the South. Let me know. At least I haven't seen this one addressed in any grammar books (as a separate problem) that I've seen recently or even in the past. This one belongs to us!

So what is it?

This hindersome and annoying mistake is heard just about everywhere around Columbus County N. C.-- the irritating misuse of SEEN for SAW. If you live around here, I know you've probably heard it dozens of times, so I'm now going to see if we can clear up the cobwebs on this one now and forever!

First, though, here's a quick review of verb tenses. All English verbs have six tenses and I'll use examples from today's subject lesson to go through them.

PRESENT - I see, you see, he/she/it sees, we see, you see, they see

PAST - I saw, you saw, he/she/it saw, we saw, you saw, they saw

FUTURE - I shall see, you will see, he/she/it will see, we shall see, you will see, they will see

PRESENT PERFECT- I have seen, you have seen, he/she/it has seen, we have seen, you have seen, they have seen

PAST PERFECT - I had seen, you had seen, he/she/it had seen, we had seen, you had seen, they had seen

FUTURE PERFECT - I shall have seen, you will have seen, he/she/it will have seen, we shall have seen, you will have seen, they will have seen


Now, don't worry about all of this technical language just now. There ARE things you need to know about all of these tenses, including what they mean and when they are used, but for right now, we're concentrating on just SAW and SEEN.

Okay. So this is the kind of thing we hear way too much:

I SEEN (instead of SAW) that movie last week at the Cinema... or...

Betty SEEN (instead of SAW) her second cousin at the Harvest Festival in Whiteville last November...or...

Did you know we SEEN (instead of SAW) some good talent at the Columbus County Fair last night?

Groan...Hearing this mistake makes me about as crazy as a lost dog in a meat market. PUH - LEEZE! Spare me!

Just remember this and you'll get it right every time:

Use SAW ONLY when you are speaking or writing in the PAST TENSE and when HAS, HAVE, or HAD is NOT a part of the verb.

Example:

I SAW the football game last night at Legion Stadium.

Here, the football game happened obviously in the past (last night), and HAS, HAVE, or HAD is not a part of the verb.


Use SEEN only when you are using HAS, HAVE, or HAD as part of the verb.

Example:

Louise HAD SEEN that TV program several times by the time Kenwood saw it.

Here, SEEN is correct because Had is part of the verb.


There is one little thing you should keep in mind: If the subject and verb are separated from each other, the broken apart verb still remains the verb of the clause you are working with. This happens most frequently in sentences that ask questions. For example:

Have you SEEN my little brother?

In this sentence, the subject is YOU and the verb is HAVE SEEN, even though HAVE SEEN is not together. I'm not sure we have much trouble saying something such as, "Have you SAW my little brother?", but this has been known to happen, so if this has been troublesome for you, just remember, once again, that using HAVE in a sentence such as the preceding requires us to use SEEN -- not SAW.

Try a few on your own.

(1) Ricky (saw, seen) his flat bed trailer being used in the parade.

(2) I never (saw, seen) such a big sweet potato!

(3) Have you (saw,seen) the oysters being served at Dale's Seafood this week?

(4) Greg (saw, seen) his sister's pocketbook hanging on the back of the chair.

(5) Mrs. White had (saw, seen) many apples disappear from her kitchen until she decided to catch the culprit.


I hope you see how very easy these sentences are. Here are the correct answers:

(1) SAW...because there is no "H" word part of the verb (HAS, HAVE, HAD) , and past tense is obviously required.

(2) SAW...same as (1)

(3) SEEN...HAVE is part of the verb

(4) SAW...same as (1) and (2)

(5) SEEN...HAD is part of the verb


All right! Isn't that easy? Just watch out for the "H" words as a part of the verb, and you'll never have trouble with SEEN again!

Well, it's about time to let you go, and since we've moved that ox out of the ditch, let me wish you a great week with lots of happy things for you and yours. Next time we'll continue with some of the special requests I've been receiving. Keep your ideas for lessons coming! Much peace and time to relax. Warmest regards, GG

254 comments:

1 – 200 of 254   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Why do you care? Get a life.

Ruth said...

Thank you so much this acticle has explained the use of seen and saw so well. I have seached many websites and this by far is the best explaination.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. I wish I had been taught this earlier in life. Many people spoke poorly where I grew up and I didn't realize there was a problem. I was lucky enough to test out of English in college but then I also missed out.

Anonymous said...

I'm happy you care.

Anonymous said...

Thank you GG.... rca

Anonymous said...

Thank you...now my mother in law will leave me alone...I didn't realize I always said this incorrectly.

passion.due said...

Really exellent article about (seen and saw ).expecting more and plz continue a lot

Anonymous said...

Thank you. This is an excellent explanation. I hear sooo much of "seen" in Iowa.

Why do we care? Because, we want to try to write and speak correctly. Because, we want to be taken seriously when we write or speak.

Anonymous said...

My brother told me he seen this website and to check it out. I am glad I checked it out and will be telling others about it.

JD said...

This drives me up the wall as well; but all the rednecks do it.

Anonymous said...

Thank you! I hear people say SEEN instead of SAW all the time. It started getting to the point where I thought *I* was saying it wrong. I think it should be required for everyone to take a simple grammar test before getting hired for a job. Simple as that.

Anonymous said...

When I was a youngster in school, back in the "dark ages", when kids were actually taught and expected to speak English correctly, (GASP!!!), a wonderful English teacher explained it to me like this, "I see, YOU saw, WE HAVE seen". If everyone could/would remember that rule, many less peoples' blood would BOIL, including mine, when hearing the incorrect and most commonly used "I seen", instead of the correct phrase which is "I've seen/I have seen"

xcskier said...

I thank you so much helping me saw the way forward!

Rachel said...

Thank you for this article, I teach Year Six in North East England where the seen/saw error is very common, and your article has made explaining the rule a lot easier.

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Anonymous said...

It is common in Moore County, NC also. Maybe the dialect shortened "I've seen" or "I'd seen" to "I seen", but it drives me crazy. Maybe your next great explanation can be on give/gave... "I give him a piece of my mind.."

Anonymous said...

Hello. And Bye.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the clear and simple explination.

Anonymous said...

I struggled to remember the rules; however, this has helped!

thank you

Noodle said...

oh my word. Your blog is going to save my life; I suck at grammar and this is so is useful. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

You know, this is one of my biggest issues in life. I missed a lot of the basics as a child because i was in hospital and now trying desperetly at the age of 26 to fix it. You have helped me out immensly. Thank you. i look forward to going through the rest of your entries.

Luvlyluv said...

Think it's common where you are from? I'm from Detroit. Enough said.

Thank you for the clear explanation. I think I will share it on Facebook. Maybe it will enlighten many people.

Anonymous said...

Thankyou for the post. I thought I was the only one going crazy with this 'irritating' error in language. I choose not to correct my friends that have acquired this bad habit however, this isn't just a 'southern' problem....it's alive and well in California also. It's like fingers on a chalk board though. Since this is such a wide spread problem, I'm suprised that it is not addressed more in school now. I'm in my 60's so it is obviously multi-generational.

Anonymous said...

Although I was taught the correct usage of these words, I sometimes seem to forget the proper usage if I am just chatting with my friends or speaking quickly, and I have one friend who always jumps in, interupts my story to tell me....SAW....not SEEN. and than she usually rolls her eyes like I am a redneck. Well I am not a redneck and I honestly do not see what the big deal is about the two words, people will get your meaning of what your trying to say. I, of course always used proper grammer in school but now it is just not that important and I would appreciate everyone quit saying it is such a big deal when someone uses grammer improperly. It is not like nails on a chalkboard, it is not redneck, and it's not as big of a deal if they get misused once in awhile. However it is a big deal if you really do not know the meanings differences. PEACE

Anonymous said...

Great explanation. Here, in the NW, the misuse of seen, marks one as being uneducated.

Anonymous said...

Saw is a tool to cut things and it isn't proper english. So you saw a game. Did you cut the game in half. In my opinion saw is slang and everyone goes along with it. Alot of people can't speak proper English and even our US Congress knocked down English as Our National Language. No wonder noone can speak proper English anymore.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for clearly delineating the proper use of 'saw and 'seen'.
My boyfriend is committed to speaking English correctly and you're helping to bridge an important schism in his grammar and our relationship.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for this. I always get this wrong and its one of my only bad grammer useage.

Saw is a word said...

"Saw is a tool to cut things and it isn't proper english."
-If a saw is a tool to cut things, then it is proper English. You mean using it in that context isn't. Which goes against pretty much every major dictionary in the entire world.


"So you saw a game. Did you cut the game in half."
-"I'm going to fire you for your inappropriate actions!" "AAAAAH! NO! IT BURNS, IT BURNS! I SWEAR, I WON'T PEAK INTO THE WOMEN'S BATHROOM ANYMORE, HONEST!"
-"Given my large influence over the country, I think I'll be running for office." "Oh, well that's nice dear. I've always believed that the obesity problem is an important one."
-See, your logic doesn't make any sense, does it? There exists more than one definition for each word. You can't eliminate the ones you dislike.


"In my opinion saw is slang and everyone goes along with it."
-Your opinion isn't fact. And it goes against pretty much every. Single. Dictionary. Ever.


"Alot of people can't speak proper English"
-A lot. Two words. Not one. Though luckily you wouldn't have a problem speaking this.


"and even our US Congress knocked down English as Our National Language."
-Knocked down? I shouldn't think so, your US Congress couldn't possibly knock down English, he's far too big and strong. Luckily, there exists only one way to define "knocked down", otherwise I'd be looking quite silly. And am I missing something here? Why is "Our National Language" capitalized?


"No wonder noone can speak proper English anymore."
-Well it's a wonder how people can speak proper English at all when people such as yourself continue to remove perfectly acceptable definitions from words. And no one is two words, not one. I'll give your one thing though, you could speak English quite well. You just can't spell, or use rhetoric. Personally, I'd rather have the last of the three more than any of the other two.

***I do not claim that I have not made a single mistake in the above paragraphs, whether grammatical, or rhetorical.***

Anonymous said...

I have seen this article. And you iz annoying

Anonymous said...

This is one of my worst pet peeves because it makes a person sound like an uneducated hick when they talk..

Anonymous said...

Hi. Is it wrong to say something like "You saw the last episode of The Office?" in conversation. My wife corrects me and insists it should be "Did you see the last episode of The Office?"

Anonymous said...

Aww thank u so much for sharing this saw/seen subject, I wrote a sentense "saw one message on FB..." and one friend commented and told me I should use "seen" instead of "saw"...I am so glad that I saw your grammar guide! thanks xoxo

Anonymous said...

You must check out British grammar. Even their news anchors use seen instead of saw, it drives me nuts!

Anonymous said...

Vindication! I find myself correcting my husband's lack of proper grammar. He, like many others, has been unaware of his mistakes. This is a sad assessment of our country's education. While some may comment, "Who cares?", I applaud you for setting it straight! Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Thank god I thought i was the only one who was annoyed when people continuously say "I seen that". I always tell them it is not proper grammar but they never seem to care.

Anonymous said...

The writer of this article is correct. Anyone who contradicts the writer regarding this point of grammar is wrong. Anyone who contradicts the writer and makes a disparaging remark, or tries to use their excuse for logic to disparage the writer, is unaware that they are too stupid to realize how stupid they really are.

Anonymous said...

I was in the exact same boat as yourself. It got to the point where I looked it up on three separate occasions because I started to think I was not speaking correctly. Everyone.. I mean EVERYONE misuses these words where I'm from. Even in my university class...

Anonymous said...

To those of you who are saying you don't care or it doesn't matter...

You're right - it probably doesn't matter to you if you sound ignorant and uneducated. As long as you don't know the difference, you will NEVER get a decent job nor will you be taken seriously in any serious setting. Go back to your digging ditches and shut the hell up.

Anonymous said...

For those of you asking "who cares?" or "why do you care?"...you must care b/c you're on here reading it! HA! How can you tell the author to get a life? You not only took the time to read the article, you posted a comment as well. HA! Perhaps YOU should get a life! Kudos to the author...grammar is important!

Anonymous said...

Great article! I posted it for my friends to see. I am not at all a grammar freak, but when people say "I seen that movie last week" it really makes them sound dumber than they really are in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

Spent time with a friend from North Dakota, new to the NW yesterday...an educated man, a published writer, no less! He consistently said, "I seen" when he should have said "I saw." It made me cringe in embarrassment for him! Maybe it is the norm for some geographical dialects, but in the NW, it definitely has a connotation of "redneck" and "ignorant!" What to do?!?

Anonymous said...

Very good article! Thank you for taking time to write this. Keep it up! Don't mind the people who don't care. This info helps a lot!

Anonymous said...

My ex-boyfriend contantly used "seen" instead of "saw" and frankly, it's a relief not to have to endure his poor grammar anymore. Ironically, we grew up together and went to the same schools. Unfortunately, some people thought it was cooler to not care about school than to focus on getting a good education.

Espada said...

Thanks, my friend has been correcting me every time I say "I seen that yesterday" or something to that effect. So I am glad you care.

Anonymous said...

OMG...this drives me insane!! I live in western NC bordering eastern TN and North GA and it seems at least half of the population misuses seen/saw, but also was/were...as in "We was going to go but we changed our minds" can't even express how much this annoys me!! Thank you for addressing this :)

Anonymous said...

Great post! My boyfriend and I are always having in depth conversations and we search for the answers. Today he woke up and asked me when it is appropriate to use saw vs seen. I gave him my answer and then I google'd it and read your post aloud. To the people that don't care....that says it all and is so much of what is wrong with society as a whole. More people need to care more! Thanks for the article...

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately this is becoming a common error in Australia as well. I even know teachers who say seen instead of saw. What hope is there for future generations if even teachers can not speak correctly?
Another pet peeve of mine is 'of' instead of have eg "I should of studied at school, then I wouldn't sound like an ignoramus." The correct phrase is should have (or the contraction should've).

Joan T said...

I am originally from Iowa. I can honestly say the use of "I seen it" is widely used. While I don't correct my friends or people in general.. I do often correct my children and grandchildren. If I can make that one change in the way they speak I can die a happy woman.

Anonymous said...

I need an ethnographer to tell be the difference between these two sentences in redneckese: 1) I seen a bird over yonder; and 2) I done seen a bird over yonder. Are these different tenses, or are they identical in meaning?

Grady said...

I saw at least one sentence that ended with a preposition. Is this a mistake or is that allowed now?
Also, please write about the word 'got'. It seems to be used quite frequently in speech and writing in an inappropriate manner. "I've got to go to the store."

Anonymous said...

I'm in my sixties so when I went through school my teachers drilled us on saw and seen. Then "whole language " hit schools. I checked out a few comments above and noticed "than" being used when "then" ( time ordered word) was required, some do not know what a homophone is and that "alot" is not a word - it is composed of a and lot, as in, " I have seen a lot of poor grammar in the above comments." So, why is good grammar important. It's not if you plan to flip burgers for the remainder of your life, however, if you have a university degree and come into my office interviewing for a position in my firm, if you use seen when you should have used saw, you won't work here. Whether you want to face it or not, language is the key to the kingdom ( well, besides mathematics:), so flip those burgers or find out what a homophone is. Your teachers should be ashamed. Oh, and by the way, NC does not have a lock on this grammar mistake --- it is continent wide in every nook and corner.

Anonymous said...

Why did you bother reading/posting? Take your negativity elsewhere. Oh, and get a life.

Madison said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Madison said...

thank you so much for posting this! My friend does this all the time and it drives me crazy. Thank you for making it so easy to understand. I am going to have to resist the urge to show her this. thanks again

Madison said...

thank you! My friend does this all the time and it drives me crazy! Thank you for making it so clear.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this excellent posting. I posted it on my Facebook Page. When someone says "seen" instead of "saw", my estimate of their I.Q. goes down 50 points, even if I know otherwise. Ha Ha.

Anonymous said...

Agreed, that is a dumb comment. Found this very helpful

Anonymous said...

It's PEEK! A peak is on a mountain! Perhaps you should spend a little more time on your own grammar....

Anonymous said...

Seen/Saw. I really don't think it's a big deal in actuality, especially in conversational usage.

Firstly, there is no such thing as 'right' or 'wrong' English in SPOKEN contexts. People have their own dialects (as well as sociolects and idiolects), where 'seen' might be perfectly valid in that dialect.

Yes, it may be different from the prestige or standard English variant in the US or UK, and people may get up in arms about such awful 'improper' uses. This doesn't make it wrong though.

Spoken English isn't something that can fit into the type of rules that traditional prescriptive grammars like this article seem to love. It always changes, meanings shift and slide, and the language itself is just an expression of the speakers identity. Which interestingly is where I imagine much of the grammar police annoyances, such as this article: seen/saw came from.

It's not that saw/seen is wrong. It's just you (and your cohorts)are likely bashing people from a lower socio-economic band than yourself.

I can almost guarantee that the author of this article will likely have loads of deviations from (his/her countries) standard pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar. This is funnily forgotten or deemed 'ok'.

Rant complete :-)

Michael

Les said...

I had to look this one up! I hear it frequently in Northern Michigan as well. Gawd! Thanks for your post, already several years old. My ex boss used "I seen", and I'm now more relieved that I got away from that job while I could (whole other story) :)

Anonymous said...

Can someone advise this:
I was driving and an ambulance passed by.

My elder son said: Hey! I see an ambulance, mom.

My younger son said: I saw that too.
>> Is this correct?
>> Or should it be: I see that too.

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

To voice previous comments, thank you for this article! I live in Calgary and I am hearing the same irritating use of "seen" all over the place! I agree that it makes people sound uneducated even if they aren't!

Anonymous said...

Great article! It happens in California, too; that people use seen/saw incorrectly.

Anonymous said...

As the granddaughter of an English teacher, I care! Thank you GG for taking the time to write about this topic. When I hear people using poor grammar (which happens often) I want to refer them to your lessons :) Not their fault, mind you, some of the English teachers in this area misuse words such as seen/saw on a regular basis. It's difficult to expect anything different from the rest of the community!

Anonymous said...

If it is an issue of saving time when talking to friends, I would suggest simply using the word saw. I saw is just as efficient as I seen AND it is grammatically correct. You seem to be an intelligent person so I'm not sure why you wouldn't care to speak using proper grammar. Whether we like it or not, people, and not just your friend who frequently corrects you, form opinions of us based on our use of the English language.

Anonymous said...

Well said! It's a shame that the first person to reply to your comment didn't read your disclaimer at the end. Fortunately, he or she seems to have a firm grasp on your entertaining use of wit and humor to make your point! Oh, wait...

sports betting software said...

Grammar is really a very broad topic not stop learning

Kristin Moore said...

Is this no longer taught in schools?? My 12 year old is making me crazy getting this wrong and he swears he has never been taught. Well, believe me, I am working on it! Thanks for the article!

Anonymous said...

I needed this! Thanks

Anonymous said...

Thank you I'm glad I saw this article...

Anonymous said...

*saw* lol

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much GG for your time and effort it helped me

Anonymous said...

Absolutly loved this article you explained the difference perfectly so now i understand thank you

Anonymous said...

Exactly. Lol. That's hilarious.

Anonymous said...

i dont really care

Anonymous said...

my partner, niggles me about this all the time.but i will keep on saying saw instead of seen, and seen instead of saw ,just to annoy her.

Anonymous said...

Those who don't care embrace being illiterate because education is over their heads. Self respect is lacking and they know they wont get any better, so, they just don't care.

LovesDogs said...

Excellent explanation. Thank you.

And to the person who posted the last comment: Well said.

Anonymous said...

This isn't just a problem in the southeast. I'm from NC and hear the misuse just as often in California. It drives me crazy.

Anonymous said...

Perfect! Thank you for clarifying this.

Anonymous said...

This usage is so widespread, I don't think it is connected to any specific part of the U.S. (I wonder whether people in the British Isles do this, too.) I live in Oregon and heard it often as a child. In fact, I remember my second-grade teacher correcting the little boys in my class over and over. I don't remember any of the little girls using "seen" in place of "saw." Maybe it's a male thing! My current boyfriend uses "seen" this way (to the chagrin of my son). My boyfriend and his mother both grew up in California, but his father was from Iowa, his maternal grandfather from Canada, and his maternal grandmother from Washington State. My father was from Arkansas and poorly educated, but he used saw as the past tense. I was trained as an English teacher, but I think it's poor manners to correct people, and poor manners are worse than poor grammar. :-)

Anonymous said...

You don't care because you're an ignorant speaker.

Anonymous said...

I have been looking for a good explanation, with a rule of thumb.
This site takes the prize.

Anonymous said...

Great article :) much appreciated. I am in Further Studies and have a son taking exams very soon so, very handy as a pre prep :D

Anonymous said...

You have taken good time and effort to produce this. I pledge/promise to share your link on my Facebook page :)

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this. I do care, because I would rather not sound like an uneducated individual. I have been guilty many times saying seen instead of saw. . . No longer though!

Anonymous said...

Funnily?

Itso K Widme said...

From a fellow Southerner...

"You should have seen the scene I just saw!"

Quote Steve Burnette - Jasper, GA

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Doug G said...

Great job clarifying usage of saw versus seen. For Ruth: the word explain does not become explaination; try explanation. For our grammar editor: your first remarks addressed the blog readers in toto as a group (plural), yet you used: "enjoy yourself" and I would suggest "enjoy yourselves" as applicable, grammatically. Again, I salute your article and feel it addresses a major speech problem. I fear that usage could eventually force acceptance; I sincerely hope not.

Anonymous said...

My boyfriend uses "seen" for "saw" constantly and it is hard to explain to him the difference just by saying one thing just sounds right and another just sounds wrong. So thank you for explaining the reasoning behind it so well!

Anonymous said...

I am called the "grammar police" because I correct saw for seen, and try to explain it, but it's hard to explain. I also go nuts about those guys versus them guys. Thank you.

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