Sunday, August 24, 2008

41. THEM and THOSE and the Problems They Pose

Welcome back, all of you grammarphiles! I hope all is well and that each of you is minding his/her beeswax :-) Today's lesson is another one we need especially here in southeastern North Carolina. Of course, we're not alone making these usage mistakes, but I don't believe other parts of the country could "outbrag" us and say this error is heard more somewhere else than here.

So...what is it? This one, unfortunately, is heard way too much-- the misuse of THEM and THOSE. (Have mercy!)

Okay. Let's see what the difference is between these two words:

THOSE can act as either a pronoun or an adjective.

Check out the following examples:

1. Where did you get THOSE sunglasses? (Here, THOSE is used as an adjective describing WHICH sunglasses.)

2. THOSE are amazing sunglasses! ( THOSE is used as a simple pronoun acting as the subject of the sentence.)

Actually, we don't normally have trouble with THOSE...But with THEM? Now that's another story:

THEM is always used as a pronoun...never as an adjective...Notice the following correct uses of THEM:

1. I want to go with THEM to Lake Waccamaw. (THEM is used as a simple pronoun acting as the object of the preposition
of "with.")

2. George told THEM that it would soon be hog killing' weather. (Again, THEM is a pronoun acting, this time, as the direct object.)

Now all of this should be super simple. Nevertheless, we have one little quirk that we need to be aware of, and it is this use that gives us so much trouble. Just because THOSE can be used two ways (as an adjective and a pronoun), it doesn't follow that THEM can also be used two ways.

Again, remember that THEM can ONLY be used as a pronoun.

Take a look at some of the mistakes we hear too much (groan)...

1. THEM boys are so lazy they couldn't say "sooey" if the hogs were eating them.( Because the word in question precedes a noun--boys-- only an adjective will work here and, therefore, only THOSE is correct. THEM can never be used as an adjective.)

2. Do you think THEM hunters will be ready to hunt on Labor Day this year? (Again, the word in question precedes a noun--hunters-- so only an adjective will be correct here. THEM is not an adjective, but THOSE is!)

All right. Here are a few sentences to help you practice your skills. Which word in each sentence is correct?

1. (THOSE, THEM) cats jumped around like monkeys on a barbed wire fence.

2. (THOSE, THEM) are the best boiled peanuts I've had all summer.

3. Betty told (THOSE, THEM) that her car was such a gas guzzler it would pass everything but a fillin' station.

Well, all right! I have a feeling that you did a great job with this little quiz. Here are the answers:

1. THOSE is correct because it is an adjective modifying "cats".

2. THOSE is correct because it is a pronoun acting as the subject of the sentence.

3. THEM is correct because it is a pronoun acting as the direct object.

Once again, we see that this commonly seen and heard mistake is very easy to correct! Just think about it and practice saying and writing it correctly. You'll quickly master this boo boo and be struttin' like a rooster.

Ah, yes, it's again time to close up shop. Thanks so much for your attention and have a wonderful week. Peace, love, and laughter to all! GG

142 comments:

Unknown said...

THe misuse of them and those is also a characteristic of South London and North Dublin speech. I know as I'm from one and live in the other and my girlfriend (a far more educated and erudite individual,and a bit of a snob) is always pulling me up on my incorrect usage. I tried getting away with it for years , telling her it was a dialect but she had me look up your website and now I sit here in front of my computer very much corrected.

Manu said...

Thank you and google. Ive always had this confusion

Anonymous said...

cheers, from France :)

Anonymous said...

I am still not sure whether to use those or them in the following sentence:
Thanks a lot for taking such wonderful snaps and for making us a part of those/them.

Anonymous said...

Thank you!!!!! This blog has made me SO happy!!!!
I have constantly found myself annoyed by people saying things such as 'I really like them shoes/photos/books...etc...' when it SHOULD be 'those shoes/photos/books..."

Oh and I think I am right in saying that it would be correct to say 'it was nice to be a part of them' not 'those'. Let me know if I am wrong.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, I guess I usually got it right, but I never knew why.

Anonymous said...

Southeastern North Carolina? Please try and fit a West in there somewhere!

Emily said...

Ok, I guess this helped, but only because you said 'them' cannot be a pronoun. The examples didn't help my real question, which was;

There are times to speak up, but this wasn't one of ____.

Obviously it would be correct to say "This wasn't one of those (times)," and incorrect to say "This wasn't one of them (times)," But when I take out the times in parentheses and try saying "This wasn't one of them," it all sounds so normal!

But if you are sure that 'them' is not a pronoun for 'times' ...

Anonymous said...

What about the sentence:

Could you please find out about my test results and explain those/them to me?

Anonymous said...

I think the best choice is to say "This wasn't one of them". THOSE may be either an adjective (it can be in front of a noun) or a pronoun (it can stand by itself). THEM can only be a pronoun (it can not go before a noun). So, in that example the position in discussion is of a pronoun, so both THEM and THOSE could be used. However, THOSE is more related to the subject pronoun position, whereas THEM is more related to the object pronoun position, which is y would be more suitable in the case in question.

Guy said...

It's not standard English - but it once was - and it lives on in Lancashire and other places.

In the 1662 Book of Common Prayer the Lord's Prayer included the words:

"and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them that trespass against us".

"Them that" was replaced (officially, in England, in 1928, but the change in grammar would have been rather earlier) by "those who".

Personally, I rather like it.

日本ダービー said...

第77回 日本ダービー 2010 予想、オッズ、厳選買い目は?人気が平然と馬券に絡む理由とは!?見事に展開を読んで結果を的中させる

出会い said...

エロセレブとの出会いを完全無料でご提供します。逆援助で高額報酬をゲットしよう

モバゲー said...

モバゲータウンでいろんな異性と交流を深めあいませんか。異性に対して経験がない方でも簡単にお楽しみいただける、シンプルかつ効率的に優れているサイトとなっています

ツイッター said...

全世界で大ブームを巻き起こしているツイッター!!それを利用して今まで経験したことがないような恋を経験してみませんか

モテる度チェッカー said...

モテる度チェッカーが今回リニューアルしました!!今迄と違い診断内容にモテない人と診断された方を救済する、速攻効果が出るモテる為のアドバイスが付きます、またモテる診断された人には、より一層のモテ・テクニックを手に入れませんか

安田記念 said...

第60回 安田記念 2010 予想 オッズ 出走馬 枠順で万馬券をズバリ的中!絶対なるデータが確実に当てるための秘訣

ツイッター said...

今話題のツイッターで理想の関係を築きませんか。ツイッターで自分の出来事をリアルタイムで表現して相手にその想いを伝えましょう

安田記念 said...

第60回 安田記念 2010 予想 オッズから展開と結果をズバリ当てる!出走馬、枠順など全てを考慮にいれた緻密なデータをもとに検証

友達 said...

気楽に遊べる人募集です♪まずはお友達からヨロシクね!! freedum@docomo.ne.jp

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチで素敵な愛を掴みませんか?愛に対する理想や想いを現実にしていきましょう

モバゲー said...

モバゲータウンでは今までとは一味違う出逢いを体験する事ができるのです。これまで良い出逢いがなかった人にはもってこいの無料登録型の掲示板です

ゲーマーチェッカー said...

ゲーマー達のステイタス、ゲーマーチェッカーであなたのゲーマー度数を測定!!測定結果を元に自分と同レベルのオンライン対戦も出来ます。ゲームが得意な人もそうでない人もどちらも楽しめますよ

スタービーチ said...

日本最大級のであいコミュニティ「スタービーチ」で恋人を探しませんか。素敵なであいを経験して理想の人と楽しい思い出を作りましょう

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチが完全リニューアルして復活しました!!あの伝説級のであい系サイトが満を持して再降臨。煌めくような今この瞬間にあなたの胸にもときめきをお届けします

スタービーチ said...

であい系の元祖はやっぱりスタービーチ!初めてであい系にチャレンジする娘も多いここならゲット率は最強

モバゲー said...

モバゲータウンでであいを楽しみませんか。気軽に誰でも楽しめるであいサイトとなっています。こんな事をしてみたいなど希望の事が実現できる、そんなであいコミュニティサイトです

gree said...

greeで楽しめちゃうであい掲示板実現!ここで楽しみませんか?いろんなであいをここで見ていきましょう

Hチェッカー said...

簡単な設問に答えるだけで、自分の隠されたH度数がわかっちゃうHチェッカー!まさかの結果が待ってるかも。気になる人に上手く使えば、即美味しい展開に持ち込めるかも

出会い said...

エロセレブとの出会いを完全無料でご提供します。逆援助で高額報酬をゲットしよう

ツイッター said...

誰もが知ってるツイッターがあなたにであいを!?ツイッター利用者増加=であえる確立急増中!!相性ぴったりの方とお付き合いしてみてはいかがでしょうか

不倫 said...

あなたの人生が大きく変わります!薔薇色の不倫であなたの望む不倫体験ができる!割り切り~契約型など、あなたの理想を現実に変える!当サイト独自システムだから誰にもばれずに、安心してご利用頂けます

Anonymous said...

Thankyou my dad always says them instead of those and My mum and i correct him! Thankyou so much i will go tell him now!

宝塚記念 2010 said...

宝塚記念 2010 予想データから完全攻略!出走馬 枠順などからはじきだすデータは最強!これで平成22年の宝塚記念はもらったも同然!波乱の展開もあり

ツイッター said...

ツイッターから始まる人間関係!今話題のツイッターなら新しい出逢いがすぐに見つかります

メル友 said...

全国からメル友募集中の女の子達が、あなたとのであいを待ってるよ!無料エントリーで自由な恋愛を楽しんじゃお

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチがどこのサイトよりも遊べる確率は高いんです。登録無料で新しい恋をGETしてみませんか

出会い said...

出会い系サイトで逆援助生活をしよう!エッチなセレブ女性たちが集まっています

モバゲー said...

モバゲーを使ってご近所さんと知り合えちゃう!新感覚のコミュニティサービスを利用してみよう

玉の輿度チェッカー said...

今の時代簡単に金持ちになる方法は中々無いけど、可能性は誰しも秘めてます!!そう一番手っ取り早いのは玉の輿です。この玉の輿度チェッカーをキッカケに金持ちになった方が、意外と多いのです。是非あなたも一段高みを目指しませんか

出会い said...

一流セレブたちが出会いを求めて集まっています。彼女たちからの逆援助でリッチな生活を楽しみましょう

出会い系 said...

セレブの為の出会い系、セレブの雫では女性会員数も増え、男性会員様が不足するという状態となっております。そこで先着順に、男性会員様を募集しております

スタービーチ said...

日本で一番会員数が多いのはやっぱりスタービーチ!若い娘から熟女まで好みのご近所さんがすぐに見つかる☆無料期間中に試してみませんか

出会い said...

お金持ちの女性と出会い、彼女たちとHするだけで謝礼がもらえるサイトをご存じですか?高収入の女性ほど、お金を使っていろいろな男性と遊んでいます

モバゲー said...

流行のモバゲーで友達たくさん!運命の出会いがあるかも!?まだ初めていない人も無料ゲームで遊ぼう

Hチェッカー said...

みんなでワイワイやるならHチェッカー!!これ一つ有れば偶然を装いつつ、気になる人の隠れエッチ度も分ちゃいます。お近づきアドバイスも付いてるから、これを機会に親密になろう

モニター said...

副業 在宅 でも出来る モニターアルバイト 募集!数ある副業の中、馬券モニター程稼げる副業はない!初心者の方でも簡単にできるのが最大の特権です

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチで幸せ掴みませんか?楽しめる出.会.いをしたいならここしかない!今までとは一味もふた味も違う出.会.いを体験していきましょう

逆援助 said...

女の子に逆援助してほしい、女の子と真剣にお付き合いしたい、複数プレイをやってみたい、童貞・処女を卒業したいのなら新感覚コミュニティ・ラブフリーでメル友を探そう

モバゲー said...

大人気モバゲーが遂に出合いの場所に!モバゲーだから気軽に出会える!出合いに縁がなかった方も是非ご利用くださいませ

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチは誰にでも出逢いという奇跡をもたらしてくれる。スタビで理想の関係作りしてみませんか

SM度チェッカー said...

最近普通のプレイに物足りなさを感じているそこのアナタ、ワンランク上のプレイをしてみませんか?そんな時の目安にSM度チェッカーを使うんです。自分の深層心理を暴きパートナーとのプレイ時のアドバイスも付きますよ!!一度どうですか

井の中のカ○ズ君 said...

流行りの検索ワードの番組、井の中のカ○ズ君で紹介された在宅ホスト倶楽部っていうワードで簡単にお金稼ぎました。携帯からgoogle検索にアクセスして在宅ホスト倶楽部って検索してみてください☆男性の方なら家でいるだけで1日2万円ぐらい稼げちゃうから本当に楽ちんだよ。誰か一緒にこの仕事で盛り上がろう

モバゲー said...

モバゲーでは友達から恋愛まで、様々な出 会いを探せる無料のコミュニティサイトです。常時サポートスタッフが掲示板をチェック、サクラや業者を排除しておりますので安心してご利用いただけます

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチなら好みの女性がきっと見つかる!会員数ナンバーワンのスタビでご近所さんを探そう

スタービーチ said...

日本最大級の出会いコミュニティ「スタービーチ」で探しませんか。素敵な出会いを経験して理想の人と楽しい思い出を作りましょう

モバゲー said...

出会い専門のモバゲーSNSが誕生!メル友、恋人、セフレetc…貴方の理想に合った関係になれちゃいます。素敵な人と過ごしたいならココで見つけてみませんか

スタービーチ said...

最近スタービーチが女の子のコミュニティーサイトで話題中みたい!!夏休み目前ってのもあり登録比率に女性の数が半端ね~、やっぱり夏に一人は辛すぎや~とか思ってたら、暇な娘多すぎ・彼女簡単に出来ちゃった

スタービーチ said...

出 会いを探しているのなら会員数ナンバーワンのスタービーチ!開放的な夏休みはここで新しい出 会いを見つけよう!

モテる度チェッカー said...

夏休み目前になり、一人で大事な休みを過ごすのは誰でもイヤと違う?そんな時にモテる度チェッカーで簡単診断、この夏アナタも彼氏・彼女と過ごすための貴重なアドバイスが手に入りますよ、もうアドバイスに対しての感謝のメールが毎日!!アナタもこの夏を乗り遅れるな

グリー said...

グリー発信!!出会い専門SNS誕生、今話題のgreeから出会いをGETしよう。greeにしかできない事が盛りだくさん!!気軽にメールするだけで出会えるサイト・・・貴方の理想の異性と出会いませんか

モバゲー said...

モバゲー専門の出会い掲示板が誕生!出会いを求めている方にはオススメのサイトです。幸せな時間を過ごしたい方、淋しい思いをしたくない方はぜひご覧ください

逆援助 said...

逆援助でお金持ちになる事が可能なこの時代。セックスのテクニックさえあれば簡単に大金をゲットする事ができます

モバゲー said...

モバゲー出会い掲示板は色々な種類の出会いを扱っております。登録無料で新しい恋の始まる事は確実です

ツイッター said...

今話題沸騰中!?新感覚出会いをツイッターで体験しませんか?リアルタイムで相手が何をしてるか分かるから、理想の人かどうかが簡単に分かる。貴方の理想の人をGETしませんか

mコミュ said...

素敵な出 会 いで愛を育む♪理想の人と楽しめる関係を築きませんか?mコミュでしか味わえない幸せを掴みましょう

スタービーチ said...

スタービーチで会える!?理想の異性をGETしよう☆素敵な出会いばかりだから求めている関係も作りやすい!!貴方が求めているのはどういった恋ですか?

名言チェッカー said...

他の人が言ってる名言や格言って良い事言ってるな~とか思ってる方、名言チェッカーで今日から自分に相応しい言葉を見つけませんか!!これでどんな人にも一目置かれる存在に為れますよ

mixi said...

mixiをも凌駕する出会い率!!出会いをするならここしかない♪mixiより出会えてしまうこのサイト。一度ハマれば辞めれません。スタービーチで素敵な出会いをしちゃいましょう

モバゲー said...

モバゲーで出会いをすれば楽しい事は間違いありません。暑いからこそ出会いを楽しむべきなのです。登録無料で簡単に利用可能!

モバゲータウン said...

モバゲータウンでは恋愛から出合いまでのキッカケをつかめる無料のコミュニティサイトです。常時サポートスタッフが掲示板をチェック、サクラや業者を排除しておりますので安心してご利用いただけます

スタビ said...

スタビが今一番アツイのはご存じでしょうか?夏休みで出会いを探している娘とすぐに会えちゃうんです。登録無料でここまで出会える所は他には存在しません。今登録して良いパートナーに巡り合おう

スタービーチ said...

出会いのシーズン、夏到来!スタービーチでご近所さんと知り合っちゃおう!ひと夏の体験も女の子は求めている

モバゲー said...

モバゲーでついに出会いができる!?楽しめる出会い、求めていた出会いはココから始まる。素敵な出会いでまずは関係づくりwしていきましょう

gree said...

greeで素敵な時間を過ごしたい・・・そんな願望を叶えてくれるサイト誕生!!今までにないドキドキ感と興奮をこのグリーで楽しみましょう

スタビ said...

スタビで出会いができる!!いつでもどこでも出会いが可能なスタービーチで最高の出会いをしてみませんか

mコミュ said...

簡単な出逢いはココでできる☆素敵な出逢いをmコミュで体験していきませんか?楽しめる出逢いを経験するならここしかない!!まずはお試しを

ツイッター said...

新時代突入!ツイッターで始まる出逢い…ここでしかできない出逢いが新しい風を巻き起こす!!素敵な巡りあわせを体験していこう!

SMチェッカー said...

あなたの秘められたSM度がわかるSMチェッカー!簡単な質問に答えるだけで自分の隠された部分が分かります!みんなで試してみよう

モバゲー said...

今やモバゲーは押しも押されもせぬ人気SNS!当然出 会いを求めてる人も多い!そこで男女が出 逢えるコミュニティーが誕生!ここなら友達、恋人が簡単にできちゃいますよ

モバゲー said...

もう夏休みも終わりに近づき、この夏最後の思い出を作りたいと焦ってる方が、モバゲーのコミュニティーに書かれてましたよ!!折角なんで夏の思い出作りに協力して自分も美味しい思いをしてみるのはどうですか?大手スポンサーサイトが付いてるので全部タダですよ

グリー said...

最近はどこのSNSサイトも規制ばっかりで、ちょっと出 合いに関して書き込みするとアク禁食らうけど、夏休み終盤に差し掛かり色々なサイトを調べた結果、グリーだけはどうも規制が緩んでるみたいです。今がチャンスの時期ですよ

ツイッター said...

ツイッターで出 合 いを求めるのです。気の合う異性と交流して楽しいひと時をお過ごしください。登録無料で使えるので気軽さは100点満点!

mコミュ said...

mコミュでならご近所さんと出会える確率99%!友達や恋人を探してる人はここで見つけてみませんか

モテる度チェッカー said...

夏休みももう終わりに近づきこのまま一人は寂しいのちがう?そこでモテる度チェッカーを使い自分がなぜモテないか診断してもらいましょう。10~20代の女性アドバイザーが多数在籍してるので、アドバイスを参考に夏終盤を楽しもう

神待ち said...

訳アリで家出した少女が神様の救いを待つ神待ち掲示板です!家に帰りたくない、帰れない少女達に愛の手を差し伸べてあげませんか

イクヨクルヨ said...

イククルで恋の予感っ!!今話題のイクヨクルヨだからできちゃう出会い…友達を作りたい人や恋人募集中の人などが集まる当サイトで、素敵な恋をSTARTさせませんか?

Unknown said...

Them and those:
Ex: Please go get THOSE shoes and put THEM on the shelf.

Wouldn't it be generally correct to suggest that THEM is near the end of the sentence and THOSE is in the beginning?

I am going with my folks, please go and tell them.
Not:
I am going with my folks, please go and tell those. (goofy sounding)

The bulletins are in the foyer, please go get those. (goofy too) The bulletins are in the foyer, please go and get them. (Sounds good)

Anonymous said...

Can i say "Of them, 25% are bad." or is it "Of those, 25% are bad."

Guran said...

Whenever it's people use THEM, other wise all others use THOSE.

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Here's a question from 2009. I'd like to know how it was answered. A colleague and I have different beliefs about it.

I am still not sure whether to use those or them in the following sentence:

Thanks a lot for taking such wonderful snaps and for making us a part of those/them.

July 23, 2009 9:24 PM

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Jessica Lacy said...

Dear Author

I think the best choice is to say "This wasn't one of them". THOSE may be either an adjective (it can be in front of a noun) or a pronoun (it can stand by itself).

Regards
Jessica Lacy

Anonymous said...

The subject of the sentence comes before the word "them". It comes after the word "those".

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It's nice to read all these comments but but let's not forget the sole purpose of language is to establish communication and as long as that purpose is being served it doesn't matter whether you choose them or those.Things like these may matter in school but out in real world they're only words.Them people who say that it's the Irish and the British who created this confusion must consider the fact that they're the one's who spawned the whole English language.I read somewhere that,"If you want to learn a language you've got to learn the culture." Using them is somewhat cultural to Irish and British people so if someone want to use them instead of those other people shouldn't be bothered by this.

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This would all be well and good, but for the fact that non-standard dialectal variation is perfectly permissible (whether one likes it or not). 'Standard English' isn't the only form spoken, and a wide plethora of distinctive regional features - present in lexical items, phonological variation, morpho-syntactic contructions - are found in Englishes across the UK. 'I used to go to the park in them days' would be a perfectly acceptable utterance in many Northern English dialects, for example, though would most likely be rejected as ungrammatical in Standard English.

Varieties of English vary within and across borders (Cockney vs Cornish dialects and British vs American English - and, of course, not all American Englishes are the same. Double modals, to give one example, are much more commonly used in the American South).

I don't see anything unacceptable in these usages. Perhaps they insult the puritanical sensibilities of some people, but I would argue that this subjective disapproval pales in comparison to the often centuries-long history and richness of regional variation. I don't think it's a very good to enforce ideas of what constitutes acceptable English, and to disregard non-Standard utterances as 'errors' and 'mistakes' worthy of groaning over.

These are only 'misuses' in the same way that many Black English speaking communities use negative concord disproportionately more than, say, someone who has been raised in an RP-heavy background. Again, I think it is bad form to disregard these historical, geographical and cultural variations as being 'mistakes'. No linguist working today would treat these as 'mistakes', only as non-Standard variants of utterances which are, again, perfectly acceptable in their respective dialects.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if this was a post aimed at people who are learning English as a foreign language, and who would perhaps benefit from being taught Standard English. However, it isn't aimed at such people. I respect your opinion, but to condescendingly imply that these are crimes against the English language is absurd at best. (If you'll allow me a 'split infinitive' - an argument, perhaps, for another time.)

If anything, it goes to show that prescriptivism isn't quite dead yet.

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Neither, the answer is 'it' unless you added the noun at the end of your sentence is "snaps" then you'd say: 'these snaps' because your reference is to the snaps which are near to you in the sense of your speech.

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